Tuesday, September 7, 2010

http://www.garrybreitQuotes From: kreuz.com/publications/violatescharterofrightsandfreedom.htm

?impact said: "Absolute BS. You do not give up any of your rights after registering a gun. That is simple fear mongering used to stir up distrust in the registry. The police are under the exact same obligations with regard to search and seizure regardless of how many firearms you may have registered."

Oh really?
"But C-68 goes far beyond these legitimate objects of state regulation and strikes at the mere act of possessing a Firearm inside one’s own home. This is done in the absence of any evidence of harm to others or threat of such harm—the primary justifications in a liberal democracy for the state to interfere with the personal liberty of its citizens. C-68 imposes an intrusive and stigmatising regulatory regime on the lawful activity of merely possessing a firearm in the privacy of one’s own home. As noted by Justice Conrad of the Alberta Court of Appeal in the first constitutuional challenge to C-68:"

And More:
"Section 105 of the Firearms Act also violates section 7 (and 8) of the Charter.[vii] Section 105 requires a person to bring in a firearm for inspection when requested to do so by a government official. Section 113 makes it a criminal offence (punishable on summary conviction) to refuse to comply with a request made under section 105. This violates the “principles of fundamental justice,” which the Supreme Court has interpreted to mean that a person cannot be coerced into providing police with self-incriminating evidence...However, as Wicklum has pointed out, section 105 is an attempt to circumvent the search warrant requirement. When drafting Bill C-68, the government anticipated that it would be wildly impractical, inefficient and costly to have to apply for a search warrant for every suspected unregistered firearm. Section 105 provides a much more efficient and less expensive way to achieve the same end: just tell the suspect to bring the evidence to the station “for inspection,” and make it a crime not to comply"
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In addition to prescribing procedures to obtain a search warrant, sections 102-105 of the Firearms Act authorize warrantless searches in two instances: if the inspector has the consent of the occupant or has given the occupant “reasonable notice.” Since these two exceptions allow the police to conduct searches and seizures—in private homes--without prior judicial approval, they are prima facie violations of section 8 of the Charter. Neither of these criteria meet the requirements spelled out by the Court for warrantless searches
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?impact: Here read this.  My argument is fully substantiated.  I would appreciate it if you wouldn't call me a liar because you disagree with me.
I see very little fact from the pro-registry argument.  But a lot of unjustified put-downs.
A sign they have lost the debate.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/hail+these+chiefs/3462216/story.html
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?impact said : "How do you come to that conclusion? There is nothing in the act that allows that. If they believe you have a gun they can demand that within a reasonable time you produce that gun for verification."
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Wow, its simple to find that information.
Here is a court finding, and a quote from the act itself.
"While Canadians have a right to protection only against ‘unreasonable’ intrusions upon their privacy, the provisions of Bill C-68 go beyond the bounds of reasonableness. The search and seizure powers granted by C-68 are unconstitutionally broad. They authorize police to enter into private homes “at any reasonable time” and to search “any place where the inspector believes . . . there is a gun collection or a record [of a gun collection]” and “may open any container . . . examine any other thing that the inspector finds and take samples of it Such sweeping search powers violate the prohibition against police “fishing expeditions” imposed by the courts’ interpretation of the section 8”
"Section 102 in particular states: “102. (1) Subject to section 104, for the purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act and the regulations, an inspector may at any reasonable time enter and inspect any place where the inspector believes on reasonable grounds a business is being carried on or there is a record of a business, any place in which the inspector believes on reasonable grounds there is a gun collection or a record in relation to a gun collection or any place in which the inspector believes on reasonable grounds there is a prohibited firearm or there are more than 10 firearms and may..."

6 comments:

  1. Perhaps your readers would benefit from seeing my complete responses instead of a few handpicked sentences. It can be found at: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/change-in-gun-registry-tune-puts-ndp-mp-on-firing-line/article1698725/

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  2. I had a look at the article. In fact I posted several times in it. I don't know which poster you are, so I can't discern your comments sorry.

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  3. I am the poster you quoted in your blog - ?Impact. If you click on my profile you will find that information, unfortunately I could not use the '?' mark in my gmail account which I used to sign onto blogspot. I have now however updated my blogspot profile to be in line with my G&M account.

    I have also responded to your later submission in the original G&M article. I investigated in detail one of the cases you cite (the one you provide quotes from). I cannot find those quotes in the court docket, I expect they are from the appellant and not Justice Michael Moldaver in his ruling.

    The case is about wording the Criminal Code, and not about the Long Gun Registry or the Firearms Act. The remedy was to change the Criminal Code of Canada, which was done on April 22, 2004. This case also involved a warrant so it does not follow you previous argument. The remedy for the appellant was to return the firearm seized, and then the peace officer making the return was entitled to make an immediate demand under s. 117.03(1) of the Code, requiring the appellant to produce for inspection the requisite authorizations, licences and/or registration certificates contemplated by subsections (a) and (b).

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  4. Hi ?impact.

    I am glad it was you who responded on my blog. I hope you don't mind that I subscribed to yours.

    Thank you for your points of clarification. I hesitate to express a point that I was driving at in all of this. In addition to the request component of this law, is a right to inspect with "reasonable notice" the premises upon suspicion by a peace officer. The inspection, requires no warrant, and the "reasonable notice" is at the discretion of the police officer not a judge. I think the suspicion requires the officer to believe there is more than one gun. The inspection isn't simply to discover unregistered firearms, but rather to inspect registered ones and records and documentation. If a gun is unregistered, the officer can have no reasonable suspicion unless there are other sources of information he is drawing on. Therefore, the very act of registration gives an excuse for the said inspection, because then possession is a given.

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  5. These are the citations ?impact is referring to.

    ?impact: Don't know if you are still up. Check out Sir William Blackstone. “Commentaries on the Laws of England.” in Four Books. Book I, Part II, 1803, p. 138, in St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries: 5 Volumes: Vol. II, New York: Angus M. Kelly Publishers, 1969.

    Cf. R. v. Gardner 93 E.R. 1056; Wingfield v. Stratford and Asman 96 E.R. 787

    John Locke, Second Treatise on Government, edited by Peter Laslett. (Cambridge University Press, 1960)

    R. v. Hurrell, July 19, 2002 "The search and seizure powers granted by C-68 are unconstitutionally broad. They authorize police to enter into private homes “at any reasonable time” and to search “any place where the inspector believes . . . there is a gun collection or...may open any container . . . examine any other thing that the inspector finds and take samples of it"

    R. v. Sharpe [2001] 1 S.C.R. 45, McLachlin C.J.

    I could go on...

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  6. proffessorx said: "Why is it ok to register a car, a tractor, a trailer, a boat, or a dog - but registering a gun is an infringement of liberties?"

    "The LGR protects?" "We register Cars, why not guns?"

    Such "protection" is an illusion. You think the registration of the Nanny state affords any protection at all? It isn't the registry that protects Canadians from guns, its common human decency that does so.

    So you want to apply vehicle registration to the debate? How many vehicle registrations stop vehicular homicides? Take a look at your logic.
    Vehicle registration has little to do with safety.
    There are far far more people killed by drunk drivers each year than long guns in a decade. Did a registry stop them? Vehicle registrations are about theft and insurance neither of which factor into the LGR debate. Because that is supposed to be about safety.

    Do you honestly think that my registered rifle stops me from parking outside a school yard and committing mass murder moreso than my unregistered one? Does that make you able to sleep at night?

    Step back and examine a few instances. Try the tragic fact individuals in China penetrated schools and murdered kindergarten students. They used unregistered knives and cleavers. Tragic. Is it logical to think that murder happens because of the instrument used, or instead rather **the sicko behind it**?

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